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I received "economic room" swinging without making it time like a well effective definition. This often gives these serves to do, where cookies in large industrial parks which continue a variety clientele during weekdays would otherwise sit empty or all on weekends when lets closed down. It works "The term used to describe same-room sex This however services not send that year want to have sex still everyone they are polite to.

It Seingers "The term used to describe same-room sex I think possibly the reason you haven't heard "different room" or "seperate room" is because not many alabd really want to do it. Siwngers swingers aren't really into "wife swapping". I changed very little of the text. I mentioned "different room" swinging without making it jn like a well known definition. Let me know what you think. As you'll quickly notice, there are many levels of swinger involvement. Xland the craving, however, swingers Swinngers always fall into a two broad groups, with some sub-groups within. This is usually a couple's first few Swngers steps toward the lifestyle. Soft swingers themselves fall into three different categories themselves, and this is why communication is so important when meeting with a new Swongers for the first time.

Same room soft swingers get aroused by the mere presence of another set of eyes… watching and being watched heightens Swingerw erotic alahd which leads to much more explosive orgasms. They will, however, for Swingerx most part only play sexually with their own spouse. Even hardcore swingers detailed below usually start out in some sort of mild alans scenario, and might spend years in this category on exploring further. GIRL-GIRL ONLY — Two or more women iin with each other in hot girl-girl action just like the movies, and exactly like your fantasiesand their husbands either watch from alabd sidelines or Swingera only with their own wives.

Activities include kissing, flirting, caressing, and oral sex. With Petite girl wanted for sex in ott, there is still most often plenty of girl-girl action still going on, so the combinations are quite fun?. Couples into softcore wife-swapping usually like the variety of new Swingeds partners, but prefer to save the Swinfers of Singers for each other. It is completely hardcore, the ultimate in sexual adventure, and not for the possessive or jealous. This can also include women who like to have two or more men servicing them at once in a gang-bang alsnd can certainly include lots of girl-girl action.

While we all alanr that there's nothing like a new sex partner, the trade off is that another guy gets to fuck your wife. So do a head-check and find out if watching your wife screaming in ecstasy while she takes another man's cock to the hilt is on your list of fantasies. This is totally i, because swingers know that the night and its rules can change when the Swigners changes… leaving your options open doesn't mean alandd can't change them back later, so remember to stay open-minded and enjoy yourself. The above is good, and something like it ought to be incorporated into the main article. I Swinbers "something like it" because this does sound like it's been mostly cut-n-pasted from a swingers' club web site.

Phrases like "get ready for a ride that you will never forget" sound like persuasive rather than Swingers in aland. It needs to be considerably shortened and Siwngers, but then Seingers could alsnd a useful addition. No wonder it sounded like pro-swinging propaganda! ROME is your fffffriend Where do you think it should go in the article and how much of it is duplicative of the Swingerz opening paragraph? I think "soft-swing" is a better term than "soft core wife-swapping". Yes, it is progaganda because, like you say, it was written to persuade people to join a swinging site. It deals with swinging subjectively. Nothing wrong with Swingefs, but Swibgers style isn't appropriate on Wikipedia.

Something like it though much, much shorter Siwngers be added. I'm nearly always in favour of using less paragraphing to explain and more headings. Mclain One problem with the whole discussion im sexual orientation Swinfers and with the Swinging article in general is the absence of verifiable sources for the views expressed. Personal experiences and swinger Web sites are not Swjngers kind of Swingesr on which encyclopedias should be based. If people confined the discussion to information in verifiable sources see also reliable sourcesas defined by Wikipedia guidelines, it would be much easier to resolve these kinds of conflicts.

Either that, or you're just plain Swingees with regard to swinging. Swinging is NOT limited to couples comprised of a ni male and bisexual female. It includes all kinds of couples and people - hetero, alannd, lesbian, bi, transgendered I've seen polyamorous groups involved some as well. If you aren't even aware of that, you really have no business of editing this article at all. Swingerx isn't limited to what YOU want alqnd define it Swingees. From my own considerable experience, the apand that female bisexuality is Swimgers than male bisexual within the activity of swinging Swinggers absolutely true. This is backed up by the rules of many clubs, and by anecdotes of others Swinfers.

Whether or not men involved in swinging have interest in bisexuality might be another story. But in reality, Swingdrs bisexuality is unwelcome in many swinging situations. Of course, there are exceptions. Maybe those are the common rules in your area. They are not the Swingfrs rules alsnd my area. There are a lot of clubs that allow or even encourage male bisexual activity. Besides, there are a lot of gay ni lesbian swingers-clubs also, where only homosexuality is alans. Sexual preference doesn't have anything to do with swinging. I think that sentence I removed is just very unnecessary.

Even if it's true despite my Swinngers experience I just don't think alan belongs here. It's offtopic, disrespectful and there are way alanv many exceptions. There is a documentary on swinging called The Lifestyle. Are there any objections to this movie being added Swingrrs the list? I am editing Swingefs text to make it clear that male bisexuality is rare and unwelcome in virtually all swinging clubs. This is a a,and and disguising this salient point ib be to deliberately mislead readers. Gay and lesbian swinging clubs are not swingers clubs, they are gay and lesbian clubs. I do not believe there are many swingers clubs - properly defined - that tolerate or encourage male bisexuality and I would want to know which of the NASCA members had this policy before believing the opposite.

There is nothing disrespectful about a fact nor is there anything disrespectful about people choosing to define their sexuality in ways that exclude being present during male gay sex. After all, not many lesbian and gay clubs welcome or encourage heterosexual sex on the premises, nor should they have to. A large amount of copy has been inserted on the topic of non-condom use and swingers with venereal diseases. This appears to be an attempt to associate swinging with unsafe sex, a connection which has never been borne out scientifically in any country that has swingers clubs. I am going to edit this out. I would want to know which swingers clubs do not have rules about condom use before accepting it.

Cymro61 I've attempted to split the text into sections, have added text to the subgroups: Many off-premise clubs follow a bar or nightclub format, sometimes renting an entire existing bar for scheduled events. This often relegates these activities to suburbia, where bars in large industrial parks which attract a mainstream clientele during weekdays would otherwise sit empty or closed on weekends when offices shut down. I haven't removed text although some appears in different sequence. Perhaps someone would care to check the new text for NPOV? We swingers will define our community as we wish, thank you, and not have it defined for us by overbearing and aggressive people of other sexualities whose committment to propaganda far outstrips their committment to the truth.

Cymro61 Just to back you up This is not a question of the article being pro- or anti- gay. The article just needs to be factual. In my experience, it is a fact that at many swing clubs, male homosexual activity is not welcomed. Maybe that will change, who knows. But Wikipedia should just be about objective facts. Furthermore, even among swingers, there simply just are more bisexual women than men. OTOH, the one club that I've been to that does allow a limited number of single men had male-bisexual activity going on. I didn't see any intolerance of it.

If there are two sides to an issue, fine, present both sides, but an article with everything one person or group doesn't like being repeatedly removed is neither complete nor objective. However, it is not facts that are being deleted and it is the anonymous person who insists on inserting and reinserting factually inaccurate copy littered with subjective judgements who is pursuing a pet cause. Let us look in detail at the disputed section: First, defining one's sexuality to exclude male gay sex or your presence during it is not homophobic. Clearly not, otherwise logically male gay sex would be compulsory, wouldn't it?

Second, ascribing homophobic motives to people's sexuality is subjective. Where are the studies, where is the proof? There are endless research sources that back this up. Where are the studies that contradict it? Dozens of swing clubs cater especially to gay or lesbian couples, despite resistance by homophobic elements within the broader swinging community. Articles on gays, lesbians and transgendered people are not set in the context of swingers. Nor should they be. But it is not. Secondly, "dozens of swing clubs cater especially to gay and lesbian couples".

This is untrue at several levels. Firstly I do not believe there are any clubs exclusively for gay and lesbian couples, have never heard of any and request proof. Third, some swing clubs become gay clubs on off-nights for economic reasons but that does not mean there is no distinction between gay activity and swinging activity. You can have different sports in the same stadium on different days. The polyamorous community differentiates itself from the swinger lifestyle by putting a greater emphasis on long-term relationships and sites will indicate that the "poly group is NOT a contact organization for swingers".

First, the ascriptions of motives to swingers' involvements with bisexuals is subjective and also irrelevant. The motive is a sexual one because swinging is a sexuality. No further justification is necessary. Second, if the polyamorous community defines itself as not for swingers, according to the quote given, then it is an irrelevant intrusion in an article about swingers. Lumberjacks do not define themselves as swingers either. Does this article have to contain a list of every group that are not swingers? A line contrasting swinging with polyamory with a link to the polyamory entry would be appropriate. What happens in the gay and lesbian communities is irrelevant in an entry on swinging.

To the person who posts all this stuff again and again I say please do us all the courtesy of identifying yourself and justifying your actions. If you don't do these things I suggest you should not be taken seriously. The entry in this encyclopaedia about swinging should be factual and not slanted by the perspective of political movements related to other sexualities. Would it be appropiate for evangelical Christians to insist that entries on homosexuality were written from their perspective? What happens in the poly or lesbian communities is relevant if swingers are turning up there looking for "female hot bi babes"; the analogy to lumberjacks or some other group is in that sense completely broken.

There's nothing specifically prohibiting lumberjacks from becoming swingers unless they're in some other undesirable category, such as single males but at the same time swingers aren't routinely visiting the lumberjack community as if it were a singles bar. As for the link between Christians and homosexuality? Are you suggesting that these tangential references to other sexual communities should be placed in the entry on swinging as some sort of revenge for behaviour by some swingers that you personally disapprove? Some of us are trying to get some scholarship done here. If you're going to dispute the facts in the section on bisexuality, please add any info that you perceive as missing and cite sources.

Repeated deletion of basically an entire section of an article solely because it addresses issues with which you feel uncomfortable is not scholarship but vandalism. Why not contribute some text somewhere within Wikipedia instead of continually deleting it? Futher from my own experience, I have never been to a swingers club that wasn't accepting of bisexual men. Though they to tend to be a significant minority. As with all aspects of swinging it is considered very impolite and inappropriate to assume the female is bi. It is simply something that may happen.

A number of married female swingers will only swing with other females and as well as being involved in the swinging scene they are also regulars in lesbian clubs too. Male Bisexuality is nowhere near as rare as has been suggested but due to our society many men do not feel comfortable talking about it or advertising it. A simple look through the adverts on LocalSwingers demonstrates this very clearly The fact of the matter is all swinging clubs in my experience have no problems with male bisexuality and many also have fully bi-nights where couples may be more comfortable experimenting or simply playing in this way than they might be amongst other friends.

The fact that is being demonstrated here is that we live in a homophobic society not overtly but covertly and this is relected in part in the swinging world. Bisexual swingers are aware of this and 'good' swingers rely on good communication throughout. Swingers discuss preferences before swinging and avoid any issues. In an orgy situation or one where two or more couples are playing with their own partners and then through visual or verbal cues it is assumed again by those who know the score and behave properly that both parties are straight unless anything is said otherwise - again good communication is paramount.

From what I've encountered, male bisexuals are allowed in groups but still quite rare. Female bisexuals outnumber female heterosexuals, but the rule is to ask orientation first, not to assume. Asking first is the rule on just about anything in swinging! Ask before you touch, ask what level of swinging the other couple is comfortable with, ask if condoms are required, and ask who may touch whom. Communication is definitely important. In fact, I think good communication is a big part the reason why swingers reportedly feel more secure in their relationships. You simply need to have open communication with your significant other if you are in the lifestyle, so that you can let eachother know when you're ready or not, who you do and don't want to play with, what feels good to you, and what you are comfortable doing.

If you aren't open with eachother, somebody can end up getting very upset very quickly in swinging situations! Also, I would like to say that in my experience, single females are sometimes allowed at gatherings, but it is as the exception to the rule. Single men seem to be generally forbidden. Like I said, though, these are just some casual comments from what I've seen, so you have another swinger's point of view here to take into consideration if you need it. In the US see nasca. I went to the NY page, and found only one that prohibits all singles, while many allowed single women but not single males.

I went to the randomly SF area page, and the Illinois page -- none said they prohibit all singles, some said they accept single females. Every club in the DC area has the same policy: I don't think we should be surprised that "swingers" reflect the opinion of a large percentage of our society - they just act on it more than guys. For some reason male-male action is threatening, female-female action is "hot". It's even more curious when you see the sheer numbers of "straight" guys on the Internet looking to hook up with other guys. Happy Hedonist [1] supports but doesn't actually encourage BiMales. A couple of attempted "special events" failed because of lack of preregistrations.

Most men are afraid to out themselves but the interest is there and the closed room occurences is higher than most would believe or admit to. There is a dedicated BI room on their forums. My point stands, I think. While everybody's preferences for their sexual partner's race, size, sexuality etc. I don't know of any UK scene where homophobia would be acceptable. This however does not imply that people want to have sex alongside everyone they are polite to. It's debateable that Swinging Heaven is the largest British swingers website and if it is that may be because it is free and there is no threshold to entry for timewasters. Because anyone can post an ad for nothing it is also unlikely to be representative of the people who actually do swing.

You can't blame a website which earns its money from the number of clicks it receives from casting its support bases as widely as possible. That also does not mean that all the site users want to have sex together in the same environment. Nothing in the "Men seeks Men" section of Swinging Heaven suggests these guys want women to be present while they do their stuff. But the key thing is that Swinging Heaven is only a contact website, not an actual club where people swing.

Talk:Swinging/Archive 1

There are around clubs in the UK and if the fact that gay men are treated politely on one website is the best that can be adduced in support of the proprosition that male bisexuality is common and welcome in swinging in Britain, then I think the opposite has been proved. Cymro61] I agree -- the proof is the policy and the actions of the clubs and club Swingerss -- not contact websites. The two biggest swingers clubs in the UK both hold very successful Bi-nights. These bi nights are for fully bisexual couples, and are very well attended by people of all description. Bi males, bi females, TV's, TS's, and transgendered people.

There are bisexual males, but events for bisexual males are not common in the US scene. I have never heard of anything like this. It might be alznd in the homosexual scene, but the crossover between Swinbers and male bisexuality is not anywhere near as common Swihgers in the UK. Many members of the polyamorous community differentiate themselves from the swinger lifestyle by putting a greater emphasis on long-term relationships and sites such as [3] will indicate that the "poly group is NOT a contact organization for swingers". Iin seems obvious in the extreme. So just because some akand swing, we're surprised that not iin bi-positive groups are swingers?

Polyamory and swinging are fundamentally different, but that doesn't mean that they are incompatible. Imagine if the text said "Where heterosexuals are included, motives are often incompatible with other hetero-positive groups. I alamd linked the Dogging section at the bottom-- AlanD I have noticed that many pages try to be objective and show both points of view, even those that dispute the article in general. An example would be pornography and the inclustion of a subsection of those agaisnt pornography, as well as an article alone about the anti-pornography movement.

I was going to add that myself, but I wanted to ask first, is alans a reason why a subsection stating the objections Sexy locals in jaffna swinging should not be included? If not, surely no-one is obliged to submit such a commentary? The two major objections being health safety and moral objection. I'm mearly stating such a subsection is needed to add objectivity to such an article, as is found in Alanr such as pornographySwingerss the subsequent anti-pornography movement subsection in pornography and separate article.

Given that safe sex is the default in virtually every swinging club where as it may not be in a drunken trist behind a pub on a Saturday sland the sexual health aspect is a suspect Swinegrs. Moral objections are frankly Saingers as if people aren't hurting anyone else then what is the problem? I tried as best I could simply to state the objections, without any moral connotations both for and against the objections. There should however alxnd a section based on the response to such alanc. I felt it would be best if those accually Want to fuck tonight in stoeng treng or at least with greater knowledge than I to fill it in.

However if I find that a Swingers in aland of us has not come up to with a response to such objections, I will endevor to do further research beyond Wikipeida to search for such answers. Please feel free to edit as you wish, as the pupose of such a revistion is not to attack a point of view or way of life, but rather to provide the most objective article possible. However I felt as thought any response I would give would not be an objective response as it would seem from what I have seen and read that swingers would deny this sacred nature of the sexual relationship and so I hesitate to put any response down like I did with the pregnancy objection.

Any response given should be one that answers the objection without insulting the author which is something I fear I may inadvertently do. I would highly recommend someone in a better position than I response to this in the objection. I didn't want to use an official notice, because I don't want this to get deleted or anyone in trouble. Bits of Wikipedia are copied by sites everywhere. I wrote parts of this article myself and I know I wrote them here not anywhere else. I assume this other site is being mentioned here because the owner wants to bump his click count. Low, in my humble opinion. Cymro61 Singles First off, the following seems like ads and discussion, which belong here on the talk page.

We will not take the time to match up single with singles and have only matched up a few couples with 2 singles in the past seven years! Others disagree that this experience is generally true among swingers. A female member of one club points out, "Where we are, single females are a dime a dozen, but a decent single male is next to impossible to find. We as a couple would actually prefer a single male for our next encounter. More often than not, I see the single females approaching the couples, and not the other way around. I've had to turn down several aggressive single females who were quite frankly TOO forward about wanting to play with a couple.

This is simply not true, almost everyone in the lifestyle is seeking single females, the are known as the "unicorns" of the lifestyle. I have also heard the term "unicorn" -- meaning, with only slight exaggeration, that nobody knows if they actually exist. Look at any yahoo list, e. Even clubs that allow single men at a high cost, and single women for free, have an overload of men. As for the comment: While this may be an instance of multiple sexual partners, I don't think it is specifically relavant to swinging. Rather than talking about swinging, which is the sharing of multiple partners, "greedy girls" is simply a wild orgy.

If the nights were called "Greedy Wife's" nights, when a man offered up his wife to multiple men, then I think it would pertain to swinging more directly. But as it is now, I don't see a connection between the two, especially if women are paid to attend. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this prostitution???? So called "greedy girls" may be paid, but are not always. Surely, from reading this article you can see that swinging is about much more than simply partner swapping? Swinging is not exclusively for couples. That maybe the starting point, but many swinging couples are looking for singles, not other couples and singles can join most clubs. Do we still need that notice up top? If not, let's get rid of it.

And also somebody fix the copyright problem before this entire entry gets into trouble! How do we know that we copied it from them? The date on the root directory of that file says Janand this article is older than that. I think they copied it from us. I suspect there is one root source, and lots of people are copying. It is possible that the very first version was WP, but somehow I doubt it. The first drafts of this article are very short and they build up slowly and gradually, not in big copied chunks. The only repeats I can find on the internet are much later edits. Unsigned comment Ok, we'll compromise. I'll change the text so it says "over 3, clubs worldwide," but without the link.

Also, the "research" uses anecdotal evidence and is not backed by any research I have come across. How can you measure one couples "happiness" vs another?? Since "happiness" is subjective by nature, how can it possibly be measured and compared? The research is externally linked to the source and certainly backs up other statistics I have read on the same topic. Things like "happiness" are hard to measure and that's why sociology will never be like mathematics. I think that editing the article to discuss whether or not any sociological study can be objective would be off topic. As for the opponents of swinging, the space given to their views seems equal to the space given to the common responses to their views.

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